Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

In a round-robin about new parking charges that hit my inbox today, Haringey Council wrote the following:

Visitors parking permits will be simplified and no longer be subject to a limited allocation

This is to ensure we are taking a fair approach when it comes to everyone who wants to park in our borough and to encourage people to use other forms of transport if possible.

As I read it they're saying that they're going to make visitor parking permits easier to get "to encourage people to use other forms of transport". So, making it easier to use a car will encourage people not to use a car. 

Is there some good logic there that is eluding me or is it the nonsense I think it is?

ADDENDUM:

The discussion that follows from this post has revealed that visitor parking charges will more than double and residents will no longer be able to exchange unused permits.

Read about the proposals on Haringey's website here.

You can make an objection by email to traffic.orders@haringey.gov.uk

You can see a Freedom of Information request submitted on this issue here

Tags for Forum Posts: parking, parking permits, visitor parking permits

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Well done. Spot on with the regressive local taxation...

Cheers, but I don't think FOI requests have much, if any, impact on policy making. So I've also submitted some feedback to the email address I've added to the OP. Pretty similar to the FOI.

I am writing to object to some of the proposals contained in "Proposed Amendments to on Street Parking Permits and Charges. The Haringey (Controlled Parking Zones) (Amendment No. *) Order 201”.
 

These proposals include the removal of the right offered to residents by the current traffic management orders to a refund for any unused visitors parking permits. Specifically the proposed new orders state "It is anticipated that those permits would be used within the year purchased.....Unused permits would....not be exchanged or refunded".

Most residents are not able to plan exactly how many permits they will need. The new proposals will make it more difficult to manage visitor parking without buying a surfeit of permits that will will now expire more quickly and be non-refundable. 
 
Also included in these proposals is a change which increases the cost of visitor parking by more than double.
 

As a  policy, these changes are tantamount to a move towards more regressive local taxation and will unduly impact on the poorest in the borough.

I would urge the Council to review the cost increases and to consider an online system for the issue of visitor parking such as is used on other London Boroughs.

Reply received on What do they Know today:

Re: Freedom of Information Act Request ref: LBH/7090318

Thank you for your request for information received on 15 February 2018. 

My response is as follows: 

1.    Did Haringey Council investigate different systems for the sale of
visitors parking permits?

The use of electronic or virtual permits is under consideration and may be
rolled out in the future.

2.    Please supply me with a copy of any report, minutes or any other
record or documentation which details of any of the findings or
recommendations or decisions made as a results of any investigations
referred to in question 1.  

The councils medium term finance report - MTFS dated Feb 2017 gives
consideration to electronic/virtual permits:

[1]http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/docum...

Should the council move to this method of permitting,
decision/authorisation papers will be available to the public.

3.    Specifically, given the move towards online payments for street
parking in the borough, did the Council consider an online system for the
issue of visitors parking permits which avoids the need for bulk
pre-purchase of parking permits? Such systems are already in use in other
London boroughs.

Payment for permits can be made online. However our current enforcement
methods require a physical permit to be displayed.

4.    Please supply me with a copy of any report, minutes or any other
record or documentation which details of any of the findings or
recommendations or decisions made as a results of any investigations
referred to in question 3

NA

5.    What is the forecast expenditure on implementing the changes
outlined in the "Proposed Amendments to on Street Parking Permits and
Charges. The Haringey (Controlled Parking Zones) (Amendment No. *) Order
201*". Please provide a headline level breakdown of those charges.

New charging for emissions bands will require IT development of permitting
system. Costs ongoing / contained within system maintenance.

Permit charge increase will be subject to statutory consultation. Costs
£3125 including officer time and press adverts

Street Notices erected in prominent locations across the borough. Costs
£425 

6. What has been the revenue earned from the sale of visitors' parking
permits in each of the past three years? Please provide a breakdown by
visitor permit type and council ward.

I am awaiting this information and will provide it as soon as I am able
to. 

7. What is the revenue forecast from the sale of visitors' parking permits
in each of the first three years of the operation of the changes outlined
in  "Proposed Amendments to on Street Parking Permits and Charges. The
Haringey (Controlled Parking Zones) (Amendment No. *) Order 201*"? Please
provide a breakdown by visitor permit type and council ward if available.
If it not available, please state this.

As far as revenues are concerned, the projected increases are set out in
the council’s medium term finance report - MTFS dated Feb 2017:  

[2]http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/docum...

The headline figures forecast are given as: up to £350k for visitor
permits, up to £400k resident permits under the revised CO2 banding
changes

Both of these figures are over the next two years.

 

If you are unhappy with how we have responded to your request you can ask
us to conduct an Internal Review. If so, please contact the [3]Feedback
and Information Team. 

Yours sincerely,

Fred Fernandes

Parking Schemes Manager (Interim)

5th Floor, Alex House, Wood Green, London N22 7TR

T. 07814 979 690

E. [4][email address]

This cuts out all spontaneity for visiting friends, family, car club use, etc as having enough visitors permits will be discouraged. It will give MORE ADMIN WORK to the overstretched council services since we'll constantly need to use their services...&*%$£!@£@@££

I don't own a car.

STOOPID HARIINGEY....ONCE AGAIN! I despair!

Islington Council has also started doing this via their parking contractor Ring Go, and the functionality exists on their system but not on the one operated by Pay By Phone (Haringey's operator).  I'm sure they will have to develop such a function if they are to keep up with their competitors, so I'm guessing it won't be long before they do so.

Thanks useful. Of course it raises the question of whether Haringey ought to be changing provider. Alternatively, if the Council needs to stay with PbP for contractual reasons, if cashless Resident Visitor Permits are going to be introduced by PbP soon, should Haringey hold off making these visitor permit changes until that point?

In my experience, whenever an organization says they want to "simplify" anything it means they want to make it simpler for them to rip you off.

I had to re read it several times, but still came up with the same "have more permits for more cars to park, because more cars encourages use of other transport". Or put another way, the more permits that can be sold equals more income for the council. They seem to be adding new schemes to increase revenue wherever they can recently, for example starting charging for brown bins etc.

More worrying is that they won't last as long as OllyR suggested, as I too have them for much longer than 12 months as I never know when I might need them.

It should be £100pcm to park outside your house. The market says so.

Islington council has bumped up the permit price for diesels by about £100 I believe, as well as charging £2/per hour extra to park on meters in the borough.

PS: Should you want to make an objection to the proposals, I've added the email address to do that in the original post.

We've asked on Twitter why the revised residential parking charges do not include a diesel surcharge. As these proposals stand, parking charges could be reduced for diesel cars which seems like a step in the wrong direction for a borough with NO2 and particulate-related air quality problems https://twitter.com/HaringeyCyclist/status/961934395656548353 

We've also sent a more detailed request via email.

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