Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
A proposal for a real public space at the heart of Harringay
Piazza design for Junction of Green Lanes and St Ann's, please comment on a resident proposal to make it a reality! Could this be considered to be adopted by the Green Lanes Strategy Group?
The square / piazza would work as a pedestrian friendly gateway between the two wards of Harringay and St Ann's. Bus routes would continue as normal and traffic direction would be reversed on Harringay Rd, also making catching a bus safer, crossing St Ann's for the 341.
For the Winter Fair everyone will remember how exciting it was to see the band and pyrotechnics open the Festival, Doctor bike has used the corner of the Salisbury for promoting cycling, it is a a landmark that many people recognise locally or otherwise.
PDF of proposal: green%20lanes%20piazza.pdf
For nursery and school children and parents it would make pedestrian access to green Lanes/nearby children's centre and school travel safer, it would improve the shop frontage for immediate St Ann's shops and reconnect St Ann's with Harringay, where local events can be promoted.
Comments welcome.
Link to Green Lanes Strategy News (January 17, 2012:) - http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/it-s-by-bye-bridge-bann...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 10pb34tdwo7lj on
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I can't see how this would work.
Both northbound and southbound traffic wishing to turn into St Anns road would have to use harringay road? If so thats creating a filter at the existing lights to turn right northbound and a massive increase in traffic on harringay road. Thats moving road traffic from a B road ( i think) onto a residential street.
You would also have more traffic coming down salisbury road and a right turn at the junction with green lanes creating more congestion.
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Permalink Reply by matthew cuthbert on
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At the Moment Imperial College use the the St Ann's Junction as a case study for a conflicting traffic system in civil engineering, lets pick their brains.
There must be traffic counter data to see if there is great numbers of traffic, if so then some of that burden is also shared by The Ladder Roads.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I don't really understand how blocking the end of St Annes Road to traffic is going to connect St Annes Ward with Harringay.
I do like the idea of community space but really can't see this working practically. I see community space being more like the community gardens, somewhere a bit more peaceful.
I can see the benefit when I'm on foot but when I'm in the car or on a bus I think it's going to be much more difficult to get home.
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Permalink Reply by Geoff Amabilino on
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TFL are very unlikely to approve anything that adversely affects bus movements or reduces the traffic throughput on Green Lanes. Directing all northbound traffic up Salisbury Road and then left would surely require extra green-phase to Salisbury Road and reduce the traffic flow on Green Lanes, while the 341 would still need to turn right at the Salisbury. I certainly wouldn't want to inflict buses on another residential road.
My vote is to press for building out and tabling the junction to calm the traffic, which would get a good way towards the proposal.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Thinking more about it, all of the northbound and southbound traffic except buses wanting to go east would go down the very narrow and residential Colina Road and Harringay Road. Wouldn't want to live there.
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The 38 used to be a nightmare from Clapton to Islington, I once caught the No 19 from Finsbury Park to Kings Road and I felt like a Punk when I got off, and its a toss up to see if it's quicker to go by foot than the 29 in peak traffic north bound thats true.
I lived on Portland Gardens, its was a Cul de Sac, I do love what has been achieved in the Community Gardens and residents had vision, its an inspiration, but there are 8 thousand people in the Harringay Ward how many B roads and cut throughs do they have? I think the footfall says it all on Green lanes, thats the key reason why the rents are so expensive for retailers. When Ken put the bus fairs up to £2 it made you think if I'm not in a hurry I'll walk, it made people walk more indirectly, and pedestrian movement made it safer, with more natural surveillance on the streets
in numbers.
When I choose to shop in Wood Green I walk there and back all the time, via Ducket's Common, the amount of people who use Green Lanes shopping must be enormous, how about we consider them, Green Lanes is not just a social conduit, there's a community of shops and shoppers that Harringay and the Gardens rely on.
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It would be a gateway and a transition between the two areas, located by a landmark building
it might even incorporate the incidental, informing history, direction and sense of place.
Sculpture in this space could be our crouch end clock. The space is a meeting place for people from two wards and 3 post codes to come together...N4, N8 and N15
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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That's interesting, Matt. I'd certainly welcome input from an esteemed group of experts if you're able to get it.
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Salisbury Rd would remain the same direction, with west bound traffic.
East bound traffic would go via Colina Rd to Harringay Rd, turning right only onto St Ann's Rd.
The bus route would remain unchanged.
I've checked street widths and Colina, Harringay and Salisbury Roads are of similar street and footpath widths.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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Lovely for Harringay not so lovely for Harringay Road and roads that service that area. Will this not just move the problem and the flow of traffic that so many have issues with on their roads? Surely this is just re-locating the traffic problem - out of sight, out of mind!
Great idea, but a little bit selfish for the folks around the traditionally residential roads.
Wouldn't this design be better off located at the entrance to Salisbury Road or Chesterfield Gardens, where the traffic could be re-routed more fluently using existing roads?
I am all for cutting the traffic but not at the detriment of out neighbours.
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Hewitt Rd is as you say Traditionally a residential rd, I lived on St Ann's Rd but I know Hewitt Rd is, since one way traffic was seen to be the solution, that it became an East bound extension for St Anns Traffic, I would say its all out of sight now!, any suggestions to Improve Colina Rd, and Harringay Rd and Salisbury Rd ?. Then lets do it.
Salisbury Rd doesn't have the street width to support public space on the junction, (Ladbroke's would like it,) there would be a conflict of use on a residential road like Chesterfield, St Anns is predominantly commercial or mixed use which makes it favorable. Haringey council could try a trial period to gauge impact, it is true one way system generates traffic, the Salisbury Pub, Saisbury Mansions and Salisbury Road is effectively a round about, (was Salisbury a Tory by any chance ?,) alternatively turn back 9 years and let the 100 year old terrace system filter traffic naturally with a 20 M/hr zone, the average speed of a horse drawn cart.
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The sketch looks at first glance attractive, but I am not sure what the new space will achieve.
The only active edge at the moment is the Salisbury pub. The other side of the road can be activated, but the other two substantive edges will be roads. Not a great start for bringing life to the space. The size is also neither here nor there. Too small for a market, too big as a pavement
Not sure the new public space would get much sun with the Salisbury to the South, although you will probably get some afternoon sun. But the largest part of the space will be the most shaded part.
Surely the current junction is not very attractive and deserves some TLC, but downgrading the access to St. Anns Road would probably emphasise Green Lanes as the main thoroughfare. Looking at Green Lanes as an entity makes more sense than isolated initiatives.
If one space should be addressed it should probably be the entrance to the Overground. There is absolutely no sense of arrival at the station.
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