Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Bye bye Frobisher bench
Sadly despite our trying they have refused to engage in any meaningful discussion on what we could do to keep it there. Some kudos to John Forde who was tasked with the job of phoning to deliver the news, he didn't sound like it was his favorite job for the week.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kotoko OS on
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I think it is about the moderation and esthetic. Seeing the traditional looking green grocer in the square of Newington Green, I can't think of nothing but plentiful prosperity of human productivity. I have no objection over their practice of fresh looking vegs and fruits spreading out on the street to lure customers in. There is a space in the front and the selections and presentation are assuring and agreeable.
I also do not have much problem with our grocers displaying their proud vegs and fruits on display. Part of their marketing. I think the issue with our road is how much it spread in proportion to the width of the walk way. Also, another problem being the perception that they are there permanently. If a shop closes every night and they have to take all the goods inside, it gives you the perception that things are there for a short while. A lot of the shops on our street opens 24 hours and their food displays cater for that.
I would still like to see the display in front of their shops, so I hope we will not be debating to rectify it all...
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I agree that outside displays can be attractive and make the street more interesting but they have to be managed so as not to get in the way. The outside display to Arista opposite Maqsood is a good example of doing it well. They have a selection at the front of the shop but it doesn't spill over into the pavement.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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After a flurry of email exchanges and a long phone call with the council yesterday they wont budge an inch on this. They wont put a hold on the removal, and they wont extend the 48 hour removal deadline. I've offered everything i can think of, retrospectively getting more formal evidence of the support from residents in the street but they wont have the bench there while we do that, i've offered to modify the bench, bolt it to the wall, to immediately replace it with one more similar to the council spec ones but they wont have that until there has been a formal consultation process and we can't have a bench there while we work out what that might entail. And as they are threatening FoHP with removal/storage/disposal costs if its not gone by this evenings deadline there was no choice but to take it away.
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Permalink Reply by james walsh on
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Do you supose that Haringey council are worried that anyone will be able to place 'furniture' anywhere any place if a precedent is set ? Perhaps they worry that this will need more trained staff and other costs ?
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Nope. That was not something the council has mentioned as a worry, and, as mentioned elsewhere this bench isn't the precident setter in the borough, and, if they were prepared to give slightly more than 48 notice the day before school holidays start we could have gathered evidence showing that we had already asked around here and locals do support having a bench here, and from that extend the deadline even further to allow a more comprehensive consultation which would have been enough for the council to put a bench here permanently. I don't think there was any need to have such a draconian 48 hour deadline.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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This is particularly disappointing, Ant, given that you were plainly offering to compromise in several key aspects. You and I sometimes disagree - it's always good to have constructive debate! - but in this instance I cannot understand what appears to be pointless blockheaded intransigence by the Council. Especially as you've offered to replace the bench with one which meets Council specs.
Ant, can I please have your permission to post your two photos on this page on my Flickr photoblog? Crediting you of course, and giving the link to this discussion thread.
I usually get well over a thousand hits a day on my photos. So hopefully a few more people across the UK and elsewhere in the world will better understand why the Council's motto should now be "Regress with Inanity".
P.S. And are you okay with people tweeting with one of your photos?
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I've tried to put myself in Haringey's shoes on this one. Yes, there are issues around maintenance (who will pay when it needs repair and how this can be guaranteed to happen) and fears that it could be used as a focus for anti social behaviour with people siting on it late in the evenings and knocking back lager (although they can sit on the wall if they want to do that). But all of those things could have been sorted with a conversation and maybe agreeing a trial period. What really gets my goat on this one is that this has ended up as such an urgent priority when the illegal street trading on Green Lanes has been allowed to go on for years. Blocking a substantial width of the very busy pavement, and in some cases forcing people to walk in the road because the thoroughfare has been so narrowed at some points, is surely a much higher priority than a bench tucked away off the walkway in a residential street.
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This would be my speculation as well, Michael. Benches do get vandalised - sometimes to the point where they may be dangerous. Or where repairing or replacing them starts to impact on a limited and shrinking budget. And yes, they can be misused by street drinkers and others.
But, they also serve to increase everyone's enjoyment of city streets. In particular aiding the mobility of elderly and disabled residents who like to stroll but want somewhere to stop from time to time. (Without having to buy something artisanal from the "café culture" industry, beloved of regeneration "experts".)
We have talked online about Marchmont Street in Bloomsbury. Zena and I liked the community garden. How well does that work as a "tool for conviviality"?
A Plea to Cllr Gina Adamou
Gina, if you are reading this, I'm told you sometimes find campaigning up and down the hillier Ladder streets is not as easy as in your younger days. So I'd sincerely urge you to think again.. (If one of the members of Harringay ward Labour Party branch is reading, please pass it on to Gina.)
Gina please put yourself on the side of the "good guys" on this issue. People who love and value our streets; and the conviviality of cities. Not on the side of bureaucrats who just want to control and restrict and are scared of experiment. Whose working assumption is always that residents are probably wrong.
You would be in very good company. To give one excellent example, there's the great Jane Jacobs who observed, described and deeply understood the life of city streets far better than so-called experts. When she was very old and in poor health Jane Jacobs loathed having to take taxis in her adopted city of Toronto. Because she loved just walking down the streets.
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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So sorry to hear this Ant, and I guess I must have missed my chance to say goodbye to the bench.
Like many others here I am really disappointed by how the Council have reacted to this, especially given the many other infringements of 'the rules' that happen every day. Perhaps it's a case of a non-urgent but achievable action being easier to act upon than a more urgent but complicated one (ie rubbish, litter, dumping, dog crap, pavements etc).
Boo.
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The site of the once and future bench is available for photoshoots, Alison.
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Ant, could you please post the full exchange of emails on this.
It seemed to me from what you wrote that the distance between you and the Council was quite narrow. And it would be a real shame if this could not be bridged. Is there any further progress?
Though a word of caution. If it was in my local neighbourhood I'd expect local residents would want to be consulted before a bench was installed. In a spot where we did have an "unofficial" bench it's been removed because there are problems with street drinkers and rough sleepers. Plus allegations of drug dealing.
I haven't yet had a reply to my plea to Cllr Gina Adamou, but will post it when I do.
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