Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Government Petition Website: EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum
Anything's worth a try.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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But the piece of paper that Cameron came back from Brussels with is now null and void.
If the U.K.remains (wants to remain) it will be on new terms (Brussels terms).
Brussels commisioners are like headmasters, sick to death of the unruly student and want to expel him for ever.
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Permalink Reply by maggie on
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The law was changed in 2010 in the Fixed Term Parliament Act by the coalition government, even though it was not in the Conservative Manifesto. It changed the term to 5 years with the only way of disolving government in the interim by having (as said above) 2/3 of MPs voting for this or for a motion of no confidence (this is unlikely as the Tories have a majority of 12). (Lab, SNP, LD, DUP and others add up to 319 while the Conservatives have 331).
The only way to get a general election would be to propose a motion of no confidence and get 12 Tories to vote against their own party.
You are right in that an unelected person will be representing our exit deal and will also be Prime Minister for the next four years until the next election in May 2020 without us being able to have any choice in the matter or ability to do anything about it. (We have a big democratic deficit in this country added to this is our unelected second house and unelected head of state.)
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The bizarre and illogical development of the British Constitution means that not only do we not elect a Prime Minister, but that they do not even need to be a Member of Parliament. A written constitution CAN be a useful tool in some countries, but it is often down to the political bias of the judiciary to interpret this. In Ireland for example, effective contraception was only made available after a court found denying of same was unconstitutional.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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@ coco: Does it feel right to have non-elected people in Brussels making laws and regulations that we have to obey ?
I would assume that the person representing our exit deal ( if any ) will be an elected Member of Parliament, elected by the members of their party to do the job ?
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..or having unelected Lords and Head of State rubber stamp the outcome..
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As you know, the function of the Lords, composed of people with experience and expertise in the real world ( unlike many MPs ) , is to examine proposed legislation and suggest changes where they feel it necessary. They have no executive power and neither does the Head of State. But some faceless gnome in Brussels can tell me what kind of light bulbs or kettle I can't buy :-)
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Strange how different countries react to so-called meddling. Germans generally think that anything that improves the environment, is energy efficient and saves money is a good thing.
Many Brits object to regulations like this. They'd prefer to carry on paying more for less efficient hoovers, that actually use more power to make noise than to pick up dust. Or light bulbs that ruin the environment.After #Brexit you can be 'proud again' to be ruining the environment for the U.K. and the rest of Europe too. Pretty chauvinist I call it.
As for the Lords and Head of State. Shall I just say, I'm not surprised at your subservient views.
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No, the faceless gnome can propose what type of light bulb or kettle you can buy. The elected parliament has to accept it. It's done at EU level rather than national level so a manufacturer can design a light bulb or a kettle that can be sold anywhere in the single market rather than having to comply with different standards for each member state. Seems entirely sensible and efficient to me.
http://europa.eu/eu-law/decision-making/procedures/index_en.htm
I guess in a world where we decide giving up any access to the single market is a sensible price to pay for full control of our (thereby much reduced) economy, and we decide our specially unique country needs specially non-standard kettles, these special unique UK kettle standards would be set through delegated legislation, leaving the details to unelected civil servant gnomes. But hey, at least they are UK faceless gnomes.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06509/SN06...
The special kettles would still be made in China just like the boring EU kettles, but being special they will cost more to make and there will be less choice. Weaker pound then adds even more cost for the UK consumer. But I'm sure it is all worthwhile to have UK kettles for UK people.
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The more-powerful kettles heat up faster than the less so there is less heat loss over time.
What you're saying is lets go back to the wartime utility products where everybody has to buy the same.
As regards the faceless gnomes who are out of touch with reality ....
I worked for nine years in Brussels ( not for the Commission ) and knew quite a few who did. I don't know how things are now but at the time, towards the end of the 70s, people working for the Commission were on huge salaries of around 80-100 K, paid a flat 10% income tax, sent their children to the International School with fees paid by the Commission, could import cars free of VAT, bought food at the subsidised Commission store. That's why I say they had no concept of real life.
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The more-powerful kettles heat up faster than the less so there is less heat loss over time.
In that case, they will use less energy and regulations based on Energy Consumption are unlikely to ban them, aren't they?
Of course, since the actual regulations aren't written yet neither of us know for sure.
https://fullfact.org/europe/first-they-came-vacuum-cleaners-will-it...
What we do know is that anyone claiming "Brussels is about to ban high powered kettles" is lying to you.
What you're saying is lets go back to the wartime utility products where everybody has to buy the same.
Obviously I'm not. But you are funny! Do you think UK trading standards are oppressing your right to express your individuality by buying a substandard exploding mobile phone charger?
Look, you will always have standards. Minimum standards are necessary so people can assume what they buy is basically safe and does the job. Industry standards are efficient because you can assume that your customers have certain requirements like the same domestic power supply. So, ideally you want you and your trading partners to agree common standards so you can all get on with trading instead of making a load of almost identical kettles all of which only work in one country.
As regards the faceless gnomes who are out of touch with reality ... That's why I say they had no concept of real life.
You didn't say they have no concept of real life. You said they were telling you which kettle you could buy. Which (assuming the kettle draft referred to above does eventually become law) is sort of true, but only after it's been approved by an elected body, and no more true of the Brussels bureaucrats than the UK Civil Service and the various standards committees and professional associations who advise them.
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Non-elected people don't make EU laws. They propose laws which are voted on by the elected representatives. The elected representatives decide what becomes law.
Very similar to the UK civil servants who put together the draft bills for UK law. You don't vote for them either.
https://civilservice.blog.gov.uk/2015/11/20/parliament-the-legislat...
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From the Guardian..
I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
-Rudyard Kiplinghttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/boris-johnson...
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