Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Green Lanes Area Transport Study - consultation
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/transport/green-lanes-area-transport-study
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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Do you have any evidence that June traffic on these roads is normally 8% lower than January traffic because of seasonal factors? I wouldn't be surprised if June was normally higher, so the evaporation rate due to Wightman filtering even greater than 8%.
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"I don't see how I'm misrepresenting the results"
So you've misunderstood them then. It was an engagement tool to collect ideas. There were 1323 individual bits of feedback covering around 200 different issues or proposed improvements. It wasn't a "vote" on Wightman filtering. Some people used it as an opportunity to indicate what they thought of Wightman filtering, but most raised different issues or possible solutions.
The integrity of the feedback tool was also suspect. It was trivially easy to login multiple times to upvote your pet solution or downvote those you opposed - I reported this at the time after I noticed that one of my comments received about a dozen down votes almost immediately after I posted it.
But, even if the tool's integrity was better, the nature of the process means you can't interpret the frequency of each piece of feedback as if it were a plebiscite on a single issue.
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"why not support removing parking on one side of the road and moving the the opposite bays onto the road?"
I think you mean Package WL1 - "Minor Improvements":
This would be a minor inconvenience for residents unable to park on their own side of the road, in exchange for an improvement for pedestrians. Also nicer for the >16000 per day through traffic vehicles which would no longer need to negotiate parked cars on one side, so I'd expect the through traffic to increase and therefore negate any improvements for pedestrians and further increase noise and pollution and reduce residents' quality of life. I can't see any benefit for cyclists - there's no increase in carriageway width which is too narrow for shared car+cycle use with >16000 vehicle movements per day. One of the diagrams suggests chicanes too which I think would have a similar effect to the current islands i.e. encourage vehicles to speed up dangerously in order to overtake a cyclist before the next chicane.
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Permalink Reply by DanielJ on
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John,
Can I just point out that filtered is correct. From the point of view of anyone on foot or on a bike, Wightman was never closed (well except for the few days when they finished off!). There's a serious point in here, namely that if you view "journeys" as simply "car journeys" you ignore the significant negative impact on non-car users (the majority of people in Harringay) of too much motor traffic. I'll bet the families I saw walking/playing/cycling along Wightman last summer don't make an appearance this year. There's clearly a balance to be struck, local residents need to get around and public transport needs prioritisation. But I object to two things in particular: first, that the area is sacrificed (particularly residential roads such as Wightman) as a route for those further north to drive into central London; second, that there is an implicit assumption that car journey times are sacred and can't be negatively impacted. The quiet victims of this are those who would cycle but can't, those who would walk but are dissuaded. Their journeys are already majorly impacted and there's a direct trade off with car journey times - the status quo is an unrealistic benchmark IMO, not least because of the pollution consequences.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Fair enough Daniel - I hadn't thought of " Filtering " as meaning let some through but not others.
But by " journeys " I think of all journeys, not just car journeys. If a bus takes three times as long to go from A to B, 100-odd passengers are negatively impacted, not just one or two cars.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I'd be more sympathetic to this argument if the cars regularly contained more than one passenger (the driver!)
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There are four options. One of them is way too much for the likes of us, two of them are THE SAME THING. Guess what you're getting if you plump for filtering?
The only Harringay residents that will be happy about the result of this consultation will be Antoinette and Paulie.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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This was snapped from a programme on TV, shot in Spain. This is exactly the same as a solution I've been wondering about and putting forward for consideration for Wightman. "No Entry Except to Residents"
Let's say a Wightman sign allowed passage to all Haringey Resident permit holders. A dozen of these and a few fixed traffic cameras along with penalties for infringement would be an enormously cheap and effective solution.
The system could even be set to operate only during certain hours to help mimimise the worst of any local 'displacement snarl-ups'.
The thin end of the wedge however might be if these appeared all over London. But the same could be said for the closures in Hermitage and the Gardens and they still stand.
What this picture showed me was that such a system is apparently found to be a workable solution elsewhere in Europe. So why not in London?
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Why not ? Because the citizens of other countries in Europe generally respect the laws, whereas in London....... ?
There is a 20mph speed limit on most roads in Haringey but you would never know it
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They don't in my experience.
And the 20mph limit really does need to be enforced before drivers and cyclists take it seriously.
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The speed limit doesn't apply to cyclists. Speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles but that does include electric bicycles.
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