Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Crouch End Heights !!!!?????

Estate agents (Prickett & Ellis of Crouch End - where else) have now given the name "Crouch End Heights" to the north (higher) part of Stapleton Hall Road.  See the attached.  The property in question at 194 is just down the road from Quernmore Road.  What next Finsbury Park village?.  There was an attempt at Stroud Green Village, but this came to nothing.

Do advertising standards authority rules on advertising apply to estate agents?  Just think there might be some person somewhere who might be taken in by the “posh” address.  Note that reference is made to the shops in Crouch End - only 15 minutes walk (more like 20), however no mention that the Green Lanes shops are just five minutes walk away and Stroud Green Road only ten minutes walk. Suppose that they aren’t good enough.
The box on the roof - now there’s a story.  Way back in 1987 one weekend, a demolition crew came in and stripped the pitched roof off the house and built the box as a part of a roof extension.  A complaint was made to Haringey Council who ordered the pitched roof replaced.  The builders ignored this and appealed, in the end Thatcher’s Secretary of State for the Environment Nicholas Ridley allowed this piece of vandalism.  And then, to add insult to injury the good red brick work was painted.
The middle flat was sold about four months ago and has been lying empty ever since - why?
Konrad
Crouch End Heights resident

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on August 6, 2015 at 21:28

Not for me - I think the CENF guys have done a pretty fair job in defining CE boundaries.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on August 6, 2015 at 22:32

Certainly neither name currently has the wider recognition that CE does today, but ask anyone who's lived around here for 20 years or so and they'll tell you that the same used to be true for CE.

I used to live the other side of the tracks and getting home at night, unless you were taking a black cab, you could fairly reliably bet that the cabbie had never heard of Crouch End.

What topped it for me though, was when I was leaving a party where I'd been with a university crowd who'd all been in London for a while, but many of who I didn't see regularly. When I left, explaining that I was off to Crouch End, I learned the next day that people thought I was euphemistically explaining what I was going to do, not saying where I was travelling to! I doubt that the same mistake would be made today.

Go back 50 years or so and half the world knew Harringay (mainly because of the events at the Arena). Things change.

The wheel is turning and Harringay is getting better known again, but ultimately, I'm not sure how much I care how well known we are beyond the locality.

Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on August 7, 2015 at 7:36

Yes Hugh, and every cabbie knows Manor House- it is the very first spot on The Knowledge!!!

Permalink Reply by Konrad B on August 6, 2015 at 23:40

I have lived at the north (upper) end of Stapleton Hall Road for 32 years and I have never heard anyone refer to the address as being in Crouch End, it's always been either Stroud Green, Harringay or Finsbury Park.  For me Crouch End is that area which lies in a natural bowl which has its southern edge running along Ridge Rd and points west.

I had a quick look through Ben Travers' book "The Book of Crouch End" and he seems to agree as there seem to be no references to Stapleton Hall Road and adjacent streets.

One thing is certain this area has never, ever been known as "Crouch End Heights" and it annoys me that estate agents seek to mislead prospective buyers about the location of properties they are selling.

Permalink Reply by Huren Marsh on August 7, 2015 at 8:25

Sorry "localist" but this not exactly about interfering with somebody trying to sell their house and in all likelihood "Crouch End Heights" is just another example of estate agents redrawing borders at will. If you were trying to buy an Audi Q5 you would not be happy with someone trying to sell you an Audi A5 by describing it as an Q5.

Anyway, with all the recent border controversy and CENF entry into the fray I hope the attached border map will settle all the arguments.

Attachments:
Permalink Reply by Lesley Ramm on August 7, 2015 at 0:41

They just make up new names to help sell overpriced properties and fool people from outside the area. They have done same to Hornsey for years now and now most people in Hornsey are convinced they live in bloody Crouch End. CENF are not helping. 

Permalink Reply by Roslyn Byfield on August 7, 2015 at 7:32

I don't think Crouch End 'Heights' is new. Someone I used to know lived there and this name was used in the late 90s... Good point about estate agents but I get the impression that the Advertising Standards Authority is a rather toothless body, partly as it's not statutory.

Permalink Reply by Hugo Read on August 7, 2015 at 7:38

I tried to go back to sleep this morning, but I can't, I've got all these neighbourhoods running round my head and I can't stop thinking about it. Where does Stroud Green end and Finsbury Park begin? Does Turnpike Lane exist as a neighbourhood at all? What's the neighbourhood around Belmont School and Belmont Rec centred on Langham Road called?

Then I started thinking what a fantastic project it would be to try to create a map of all of London's Neighbourhoods. Are they even called neighbourhoods? Is Harringay (etc) a neighbourhood or would you use another word? I'd go for neighbourhood. Hugh, do we have a map of what the forum considers to be Harringay?

The work the Crouch End guys have done could be repeated by local groups across London and then a small central project team could try to bring all the jigzaw pieces together. What an unbelievably cool map that would be. There would be so much fighting over what's part of what, but it would be great fun. I don't think the geek in me can take it! You could overlay it on a google map (or apple map or whatever) and then view it on your device of choice, panning and zooming around, turning on or off the 'Neighbourhoods' level on the view. Hey, every Londoner deserves a neighbourhood!

So then the local questions come to me, as they will to everyone in their own area. Here are a couple of them...

1. Stroud Green

From this thread, we have the immediate question of Crouch End Heights! I have to say Konrad, although I agree it's Estate Agent wank, I've heard the phrase brandished around for years and remember laughing about it with someone many years ago. Anyway, that leaves the question what do we call the area up there, around the library? For me, it's clearly Stroud Green. I don't see how anyone can call that area Finsbury Park. But where does it end going down towards Finsbury Park? I think just because you border on the park itself that doesn't mean you live in Finsbury Park neighbourhood. The park is very large and you can border it on different sides and be in different neighbourhoods.

Coming up Endymion Road we get to the border of something pretty quickly too. I suppose as you go up Endymion Road from Green Lanes, as it turns round to the left you change from Harringay into Stroud Green? But then when does that change into Finsbury Park? Perhaps (I don't actually believe this) Finsbury Park doesn't exist?! I mean as a neighbourhood of course. It's clearly a train station and a park. A big park. If you're on our side of the park you're in Harringay, then going round you're in Stroud Green. Perhaps Stroud Green goes right down to the station? You'd need another local survey to get to the bottom of that one.

2. Turnpike Lane

I'd argue that it doesn't exist! A tube station named after a road doesn't make a neighbourhood. Doesn't Harringay just segué straight into Wood Green? I'd say so.

3. Belmont

What do we call this neighbourhood that I talked about above? I suppose it runs West of Downhills Park and East of Turnpike Lane tube, centred around Langham Road. Not sure on the name or the boundaries.

4. Manor House

Is this also a tube station and not a neighbourhood and if so, what is the neighbourhood called around the station? Perhaps it is Manor House but I'm not sure.

5. London Boundaries!

Where do the neighbourhoods stop? Surely they have to end at the same point as the London Boroughs? Otherwise how do we have a clean definition of what is London? A tough one I know.


I think I'm slightly sleep deprived and a bit hung over. Sorry to widen your thread on Crouch End Heights so much Konrad, but I had to dump all these neighbourhood thoughts that have been going round my head since I read the thread. Maybe we need to spawn a few different threads here Hugh! One on Stroud Green and Finsbury Park, one on Turnpike Lane and Belmont and one on the big London Neighbourhood Map! I think I should stop now.

Permalink Reply by John McMullan on August 7, 2015 at 8:53

Woodberry Down is the "neighbourhood" surrounded by the New River and up to Green Lanes at Manor House. Manor House is just a tube station.

This is just the kind of thing a fascist would do BTW. Not saying you're a fascist but you're going to have disagreements at borders and then to have a cool map you'll have to be a bit of a fascist.

Permalink Reply by Hugh on August 7, 2015 at 10:34

I think that name has much more of a historical basis than Manor House and since it satisfied the developer's wish to meet people's romantcised notions of where they lived, it got picked up. It'll be interesting to see if it endures as a neighbourhood name. 

Permalink Reply by John D on August 7, 2015 at 9:27

Hugh, do we have a map of what the forum considers to be Harringay?

On the Home page click on the green button on the left marked " Harringay or Haringey ? "

Includes HOL official map

Permalink Reply by SarahC on August 7, 2015 at 9:32

I live in the Belmont bit and have always just thought it was West Green, though the Wiki definition of West Green is quite vague and differs from the ward boundaries, so who knows.

Belmont sounds rather good and I'm tempted to start using it (Belmont Heights, perhaps...). I tend to tell people I live in Turnpike Lane or Wood Green as no one's ever heard of West Green and people are too confused about Harringay/Haringey. I do remember a while back in the DIY Streets project they were trying to rebrand this area, but it seemed a bit contrived.

Google Maps says Ducketts Green over the bit north of West Green Rd, but have never heard anyone say that in cold blood.

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