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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Just heard that Haringey has refused planning permission for turning the shop at 51 Grand Parade, currently a Polish deli, into a third section of the adjacent Turkish restaurant. This probably isn't the end of it, but at least we know that the planners are listening to objections and abiding by their own policy of retaining diverse commercial provision.

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Apologies Maddy. I didn’t see your post untiI added to this one


That's OK Michael - thought a new post would bring it to the attention of more people who might have missed the original thread.

Rice&peas with jerk chicken and salad or kebab?     Jerk it up bredrin. :-)

Is there no limit to the number of Turkish restaurants in area will support?. The council's attempt to insist on diversity will surely just b light some of the area if the alternative is that the shops Stand empty. The budget this week had mentioned of the way in which the High Street must change and even set money aside to make sure it happens

The more there are of one type of business, the fewer people visit for other reasons. So if Green Lanes is seen as just a place for eating the incentive to visit for retail offers lessens, so shops close and yet more eating places take up vacant units. The process has to be deliberately halted to stop it spiralling out of control and one way to do that is decide on an acceptable retail/ non retail mix and enforce that policy 

But retail on the high street is just dying generally isn't it? That's not unique to green lanes, and is a result of numerous factors, most notably the rise of online shopping. Are you sure that there would be demand for these extra retail units under your proposal?

Green Lanes is dying.  Walk down in during the day on Monday to Friday and it’s dead.  Green Lanes has turned into a night time and weekend economy.  Look at High Streets that do thrive during the day - the business of Crouch End Broadway, Muswell Hill Broadway - they have a mix of shops that people want to go to to spend their money.  A few more high street chains on GL would be a boon as people tend to use them and when there spend their money in adjacent businesses.

By the way it’s not my proposal, it part of Haringey’s planning guidance and Local Plan.

But places like crouch end are the exception surely, reflecting the relative wealth of the local residents that can support lots of nice independent boutique type stores. I'm not sure that would be sustainable on green lanes. Are there lots of aspiring shopkeepers wanting to open stores on green lanes and being turned away? Maybe there are, I have no idea. But I don't think its controversial to say that high streets generally are suffering, up and down the country. I'm no expert, but I didnt think the move away from retail towards food and drink was unique to green lanes by any means. 

This extract is taken from a survey of businesses in the Crouch End Town Centre or the period December 2016 - 2017

If you'd like to read the rest the full article is on the Crouch End Neighbourhood Forum site. I include it here because it quantifies some perceptions and misperceptions. Crouch End is not an exception, and the trend to food and beverage is very real and widespread.

"Much remained the same – the number of chains/multiples stood still (71), so no change in the share for indies. The number of charity shops (9), and estate agents (increased by one to 21), also remained constant.

But clear growth occurred in two sectors: the number of food & beverage outlets increased to 73 (a 9% increase) – bars, eateries and takeaways now occupy 1 in 4 of town centre units – and the number of businesses roughly identified as hair & beauty increased to 34 (36 if you include those for dogs), a 10%+ increase.

The direction of travel is unmistakeable and fits with the popular conception: the retail offer of Crouch End is narrowing, replaced by growth in the leisure and service sectors. The impact of online shopping no doubt. It would be good to hear people’s thoughts on this – is it something to resist, and do we buck the market at our peril, or should it be something to embrace?"

Thanks Adrian. 

Of course Crouch End and Muswell Hill aren’t retail paradises but compare the figures for Crouch End with Green Lanes 

In your post the Crouch End Neighbourhood forum state that “ bars, eateries and takeaways now occupy 1 in 4 of the town centre units” which is 25%.

Haringey’s survey of Green Lanes carried out in August 2018 found that those kinds of businesses occupy 47% of the frontages - almost 1 in 2.  Is that sustainable and is that a town centre that’s encourages people to spend their money locally?

But it supports the point that all high streets are moving away from retail and towards food and drink. Changing approach to planning isn't going to turn green lanes into crouch end, unless you're saying that there is lots of pent up demand from business owners to open up retail outlets? 



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