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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Spot the difference. Take your time, it may not be obvious...

Before

After

Yes, Veolia prove they can pass the Marshmallow Test. By way of reward they get to come back and finish the job (we hope).

Tags for Forum Posts: dumped rubbish, veolia

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That'll be the 'its not my responsibility game' - which was the response I got the other day when I asked a bus driver to report a malfunctioning bus indicator board at the bus stop from which I'd just boarded.

One has to assume such actions are taken in line with management guidance. 

One has to assume such actions are taken in line with management guidance.

Yes, that is a good point Hugh, and may well be the nub of it. I have asked Dave Shipp what the contractual obligations are in relation to being proactive or responsive. There must be a logic as to why Veolia will take rubbish only when (on the whole) a resident reports it! I will let you know.

I’m beginning to wonder if part of the contract is that they only get paid for responding to complaints of dumping?

Lets assume this is totally down to the way Veolia manage their contracts, and not the laziness/ incompetency or otherwise of Veolia operatives...

I assume the contract has Veolia on a fixed price, they are not paid for every call out they do. If this is the case, and it seems logical to me that they are because otherwise the council would have a massively open ended commitment to manage, it surely has to be more efficient for Veolia to pick rubbish up when they see it, and not simply react to it when reported (as this would like to require not only a separate journey but the management and administration that goes with this. It is just not efficient from any perspective.

The only thing I can think of is that in this way Veolia get to collect a load of data on how many dumping jobs thay are responding too. Can this truely be it?

Yup, as I related here the other day, dumped rubbish collections are included in the overall contract price. 

It makes sense that they only attend to dumps as they are reported. To do otherwise would be much more costly and I’m sure Haringey wouldn’t want to pay for that.  You think that there could be some exceptions to the rule, like the example you gave when a planned collection is right on top of a dump. But I suppose this would end up leaving too many opportunities for interpretation. So commercially, it’s probably easier to say that only reported dumps can be collected. 

It makes sense that they only attend to dumps as they are reported. To do otherwise would be much more costly...

Not sure I follow this logic Hugh. If there is rubbish in the street I do not see how it could actually cost Veolia more to stop (if passing) or take (if near the purple bags) vs a separate task to pick up only reported waste. Remember, reported waste requires a resident to make an effort and fight with the Ap to report it, this has then to be logged by a machine no doubt, but allocated to a human to task the drivers, who then make a trip (possibly part of a loop they are already doing, but possibly requiring a diversion from the route they were otherwise taking. This requires an infrastructure to manage (which, yes, is already there, but is there because of the level of demand for such a process) and time and energy over an above that that would otherwise be expended. How is this more efficient?

I can't see the logic either - although there must be one, since Veolia is a successful commercial organisation...

Maybe the most efficient way to run scheduled services (like bin day or collecting purple bags) is not to get distracted by any flytips the team might notice. And the most efficient way to clear up reported flytips is to wait (provided it doesn't breach the SLA) until there is a certain number in a certain area before sending the van out.

Are there not dedicated purple bag pick-up vans, and larger ones that remove dumped rubbish?.

Are they that different??? Ie, that they are dedicated to only one type of refuse? (its a serious question)

If residents managed the contract, the priorities would be different for sure. Councillors are supposed to think like residents when they supervise these kinds of contracts being drawn up.

Veolia only pick up when a resident complains and logs it. They get £80 per pick up paid for by the council/us. Nice work if you can get it. No enforcement or fines or attempt to stop it. They (we) just cough up. Every time someone cant bothered to go to the dump we all pay for their trash to be taken away for free.

Not true apparently, James. See the italicised quote from the Council about half-way down my post here. It says:

"The cost of collecting dumped rubbish in the borough is included as part of the overall core contract cost. There is no separate payment to Veolia for collection of this type of dumped rubbish".

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