Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Christmas is coming and the scammers are out in force. 


Thankfully Polly Toynbee in the Guardian is on the case. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/08/christmas-eva...

There are lots of alternative shoe box schemes out there - that operate with no ulterior motive. 

Last year, I supported one run be a church in Enfield and I am sure there are more local churches and organisations too that run them. 

The article links to those alternatives and also to a template letter you can send to your children's school if they get involved in this scheme. 

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What does Toynbee think Christmas is all about ?

You can't give a Christmas present without mentioning Christ ?

It’s not about mentioning Christ.

It’s about a very dodgy evangelical church trying to convert people to Christianity under the guise of giving gifts.

“The head of the charity, Reverend William Franklin Graham III, has also gone on the record as being extremely homophobic and racist, once adding that Muslims ‘should be barred from immigrating to America’ and called on Christians to convert Muslims.”

What do you think evangelical churches do ?

They evangelise.

Whether you like this church's tactics or not, how is it a scam ?

There is a difference John.  Christian Aid provide help and assistance because they feel it is the right thing for them, as a christians, to do.  They do not attempt to convert recipients of their aid to christianity.

I agree with you John.  If you see it as your Christian duty to spread Christianity to non-believers, sending Christmas boxes at Christmas seems a pretty obvious route to do that.  I am not particularly keen on people trying to convert me (or in my case convert me back), but I don't make any judgement on them for trying.

And presumably you have no problem with for example, his stance on gays and non-christians. 

How presumptuous of you.

I didn't say that at all...but I don't see a Christian organisation distributing books of bible stories as pernicious, no

Goodness Gracious Me! How very Daily Mail! 

I might have missed something, but I don’t recall Toynbee saying Christ could not be mentioned. I seem also to recall when I went through the links provided on the BHA website that there was another similar scheme run by a another Christian charity. 

Perhaps there was something you spotted that I missed. 

So what was once a message of peace and goodwill has become a "pernicious agenda" and is posted under the subject heading of crime.  John D says it best - what does Toynbee think Christmas is all about?  I despair of today's rabid, intolerant society.

So are you happy then in the name of 'toleration' for gays to be rounded up and hunted down as is currently happening in Tanzania? Who is influencing the government there. People like Graham. 

Are you  happy for gangs of Russian thugs to specifically entrap and assault people for being gay at the same time as Graham - who has a big influence on the Russian government - praises Putin for his anti gay stance. 

If you ARE happy with that, then perhaps you will accept Graham's comments on Muslims and Islam. Perhaps we should also, in the good name of 'toleration' (a concept Popper described as one of the enemies of an open society) invite Nick Griffin or Tommy Robinson to write an article for this site. 

Of course I'm not happy with that. But Toynbee says that " After the boxes are dispatched, they are then delivered along with a missionary book of bible stories ". Shock horror !

It is possible that the book of Bible stories is a Trojan horse for the dissemination of anti-Muslim, anti-gay or anti- same sex marriages, but until I see an example I take leave to doubt it.

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