Street Begging - Harringay online2024-03-29T00:02:39Zhttps://harringayonline.com/forum/topics/street-begging?commentId=844301%3AComment%3A1168212&feed=yes&xn_auth=noGraham - you are so, so right…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-24:844301:Comment:11690502019-05-24T07:58:11.180ZGeraldinehttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GeraldineTaylorThomas
<p>Graham - you are so, so right. Poverty is never an excuse for begging. I lived overseas for 30 years in a place where work is king and where begging still carries a stigma. There are beggars, and they are given money, but they are totally non-threatening and sit quietly by the side of the road not making eye contact. Never once have I felt threatened by any of them.</p>
<p>Like you, I am in my seventies. Though I'm Harringay born and bred, wild horses couldn't drag me back - or to any…</p>
<p>Graham - you are so, so right. Poverty is never an excuse for begging. I lived overseas for 30 years in a place where work is king and where begging still carries a stigma. There are beggars, and they are given money, but they are totally non-threatening and sit quietly by the side of the road not making eye contact. Never once have I felt threatened by any of them.</p>
<p>Like you, I am in my seventies. Though I'm Harringay born and bred, wild horses couldn't drag me back - or to any other part of London, come to that - and I now live in the peaceful countryside. It's okay for strong men to tell us how to deal with these frightening encounters. Good for them if they find it easy. But as someone has said, if they are fortunate enough to survive to our age they will discover how it feels to be vulnerable.</p> Ah, the arrogance of youth Gr…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11686432019-05-22T19:42:54.426ZJohn Dhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JohnD
<p>Ah, the arrogance of youth Graham.</p>
<p>If LJD survives to our age, she may then understand how advancing years rob us of strength and speed of reaction. Being attacked in the street is very different to the situation in the gym or dojo where you EXPECT an attack. In the street your first reaction is " This can't be happening to me "</p>
<p>Then it's " Dammit, what was it I was supposed to do ? "</p>
<p>Ah, the arrogance of youth Graham.</p>
<p>If LJD survives to our age, she may then understand how advancing years rob us of strength and speed of reaction. Being attacked in the street is very different to the situation in the gym or dojo where you EXPECT an attack. In the street your first reaction is " This can't be happening to me "</p>
<p>Then it's " Dammit, what was it I was supposed to do ? "</p> Whereas I am 72 years old and…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11681412019-05-22T18:23:57.886ZGraham Charnockhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GrahamCharnock
<p>Whereas I am 72 years old and very frail.How would you suggest I defend myself?</p>
<p>Whereas I am 72 years old and very frail.How would you suggest I defend myself?</p> Well the intimidators are not…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11684482019-05-22T17:46:18.927ZJohn Dhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JohnD
<p>Well the intimidators are not going to go away. But the problem with self-defence classes is that the baddies are going to be faster and more determined than you and less worried about the outcome.</p>
<p>Well the intimidators are not going to go away. But the problem with self-defence classes is that the baddies are going to be faster and more determined than you and less worried about the outcome.</p> I somehow think that taking a…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11683422019-05-22T17:34:08.784ZGraham Charnockhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GrahamCharnock
<p>I somehow think that taking a self-defence class would mean the intimidators have won.</p>
<p>I somehow think that taking a self-defence class would mean the intimidators have won.</p> Begging is illegal because it…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11682202019-05-22T11:29:02.504ZGraham Charnockhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GrahamCharnock
<p>Begging is illegal because it is anti-social and disruptive to the public order. There is a lot that needs addressing here politically and economically, but while laws are in effect we should stand by them and protect them, and more importantly, enforce them. Please do not use this discussion to troll out your own political agendas about social deprivation and its causes. By this sort of distorted reasoning people who are in dug clans and knife others suddenly also become 'victims'.</p>
<p>Begging is illegal because it is anti-social and disruptive to the public order. There is a lot that needs addressing here politically and economically, but while laws are in effect we should stand by them and protect them, and more importantly, enforce them. Please do not use this discussion to troll out your own political agendas about social deprivation and its causes. By this sort of distorted reasoning people who are in dug clans and knife others suddenly also become 'victims'.</p> In austerity Britain, many pe…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11683182019-05-22T11:11:16.430ZToonitehttps://harringayonline.com/profile/Toonite
<p>In austerity Britain, many people are only one wage check away from destitution. Many have fallen to the bottom and have taken refuge in substance abuse or suffer from mental health issues. It's easy to judge people or dehumanise them. We need to focus on the causes of destitution and human misery and vent our anger on those who are dismantling our society, not the victims.</p>
<p>In austerity Britain, many people are only one wage check away from destitution. Many have fallen to the bottom and have taken refuge in substance abuse or suffer from mental health issues. It's easy to judge people or dehumanise them. We need to focus on the causes of destitution and human misery and vent our anger on those who are dismantling our society, not the victims.</p> And you may well lose the pho…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11681262019-05-22T10:46:52.188ZJohn Dhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/JohnD
<p>And you may well lose the phone, if you have one :-)</p>
<p>And you may well lose the phone, if you have one :-)</p> You are suggesting beggars be…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11683162019-05-22T10:44:48.009ZGraham Charnockhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GrahamCharnock
<p>You are suggesting beggars begging for money to buy drugs are victims of poverty and homelessness? That is a regular Mount Everest of the moral high ground and one too high for me to climb, I fear.</p>
<p>You are suggesting beggars begging for money to buy drugs are victims of poverty and homelessness? That is a regular Mount Everest of the moral high ground and one too high for me to climb, I fear.</p> Part of feeling threatened is…tag:harringayonline.com,2019-05-22:844301:Comment:11682122019-05-22T10:39:17.763ZGraham Charnockhttps://harringayonline.com/profile/GrahamCharnock
<p>Part of feeling threatened is that I think if I take any counter-moves such as threatening to call the police it may escalate the situation and provoke violence (and it would be a threate I wouldn't be able to carry out,m since I don't carry a mobile phone). My son has been stabbed once up in the vicinity of Turnpike Lane station, and I think we are all aware of the growing amount of knife crime in his and other areas of the city. To be fair (!) I accept that most beggars will simply accept…</p>
<p>Part of feeling threatened is that I think if I take any counter-moves such as threatening to call the police it may escalate the situation and provoke violence (and it would be a threate I wouldn't be able to carry out,m since I don't carry a mobile phone). My son has been stabbed once up in the vicinity of Turnpike Lane station, and I think we are all aware of the growing amount of knife crime in his and other areas of the city. To be fair (!) I accept that most beggars will simply accept a simple no, but some now seem to be getting more determined not to take no for an answer.</p>