Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Campaign against Wightman Road closure
Spotted in a local shop window..
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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If you don't mind me asking, what is the source for your data and is the average time in mean or median. Also what is the time period for the figures - weekly, monthly, etc. When I was using the 29 to travel back and forth to Camden during the bridge work, my travel time increased by about 30 minutes. Often it was quicker to walk from Manor House to Icelands. Walking my son to school was also significantly more dangerous due to impatient drivers or buses siting over the crossing sections.
Overall, my experience of the bridge works was very negative. I also disagree that closing Wightman will be a benefit to the whole local community. It will be detrimental to residents of the Gardens and the Parade and will also affect the wider community of Hornsey, Crounch End and Ally Pally. However, proponents of the Wightman closure seem to want to ignore the potential downsides for non-Wightman residents. I note that one commenter living on the GL side of the ladder also expressed very negative views of the experience of the bridge works.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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The data is from Haringey's transport consultants who would have got it from TfL's GPS tracking systems. The charts were presented to the third Steering Group meeting - there's a link to all the presentations on the LW page here.
The problem is people's anecdotal memories are very unreliable. For example you just said your 29 bus to Camden "travel time increased by about 30 minutes" but back in July last year on this thread here you said it was 15 minutes.
So maybe a few minutes between Salisbury and Manor House, a few more by Finsbury Park (which was badly affected by roadworks on Stroud Green Road at least some of the time), a few more somewhere else because of some other cause. Plus partial closures of the GOBLIN generally putting more load on the buses and roads like Seven Sisters.
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Previous comment was based on the trips taken at the time. I have no idea of the average weekly mean time that my journeys took as I did not record each journey, however, taking the bus to the office normally gets in in at around 8:40. In many occasions that I took the bus, I would not get in until after 9 unless I left the house much earlier. If I were to put a range it would be 15-30 minutes, but again I don't have actual times for each journey. In terms of anecdotal memories, I can only report my own experiences, which were mainly negative, especially related to the increased amount of traffic on GL and the dangers it posed when crossing with my son. I notice that you are still in denial that there are very real downsides to the current propsosals for nonresidents of Wightman. The bus data is not helpful without context.
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Pat, If Green Lanes was "like a car park" then the reduced speeds would actually might it safer to cross wouldn't it?
I'm not downplaying the negatives - I've said on many posts there will need to be mitigation measures to minimise disruption. But there is a phenomenal number of positives - two independent sets of data pointing to reduced pollution across the whole area, 8% traffic evaporation across the whole area, massively reduced traffic across the whole ladder. Not quite creating a "village idyll" as you put it (actually it just puts the Ladder on a par with the Gardens e.g. see the comparison of traffic on Wightman, Effingham & Beresford compared with Chesterfields gardens here) but certainly making it hugely more attractive for walking and cycling, which (along with the reduced pollution) is better for everyone's health. Fewer sick days off work is better for the economy. Reduced obesity, diabetes, respiratory illness, cancer etc. reduces the burden on the NHS which we all pay for in taxes. It's really bad that the 29 bus to Camden took 15 minutes longer than normal but there are plenty of mitigation measures to alleviate that so why deny an entire community (and future generations) all those benefits?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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In THIS country, pedestrians have the right to be in the road whenever they choose. If you can get away with it, run them over to teach them a lesson but remember, the only thing stopping them being in the road more is the fact that human drivers murder a million other humans a year globally using motor cars. About 3000 a year in Britain, and falling.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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In THIS country, it's not illegal to sprinkle your porridge with cyanide. But it's not very sensible.
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The danger come from congestion, impatient drivers (cars and buses) straddling the pedestrian crossing, which means you have to weave through cars to cross the road. Drivers will also creep forward on the red light. It happened numerous times during the bridge works and I got into a few shouting matches with drivers about this. When GL is congested it also makes it harder to cycle and I don't want my children having to weave through traffic on their bikes on the way to Finsbury Park, especially with impatient drivers. The Gardens has its own issues, especially at the weekends when all the families visit the restaurants. I have been forced to reverse into the Main Street into traffic because I didn't want to get into a fight with people coming in the opposite direction and refusing to reverse into a gap to let me pass. I agree with you about the need for better preventive healthcare, but I'm not sure how pollution stops people from walking or cycling more: it certainly doesn't stop me, but that is my choice. On the occasions that I take the bus,I doubt that my company would let me leave earlier because the journey times have increased so that I can spend more time with my family, which means my quality of life is affected due to a negative shift in work/life balance. You still haven't addressed the issue of GL residents being adversely effected by the changes as well as thiose that live in the Gardens and Ladder at the GL ends.
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Pat "I'm not sure how pollution stops people from walking or cycling more" - I didn't say that. The thing that discourages cycling and walking is high volumes of traffic particularly on narrow streets with narrow pavements and numerous hazards such as cars parked on both sides and "pedestrian refuge" islands:
"I don't want my children having to weave through traffic on their bikes on the way to Finsbury Park"
Filtered Wightman created an environment where many parents were happy to let their kids cycle:
"You still haven't addressed the issue of GL residents being adversely effected"
It's answered here and also by the fact that the two independents sets of data available here both suggest that pollution decreased on GL when Wightman was filtered during the bridgeworks.
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That is Wightman, not GL. What was the pollution like in the Parade section of GL? And as you say high levels of traffic discourages cycling/walking, which is what will happen to GL. You have not commented on the point about increased risks on GL.
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Pat - you can deduce from the datasets that pollution dropped on the Parade too. Parade pollution will normally be similar or probably higher than GL by Beresford or Allison, so even though the HCG monitor at 77 GL "before" reading is missing we can see it must have dropped too.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Stillman on
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pat do you think all closures that are detrimental to residents who live near a 'closed area' should be banned?
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